Saturday, February 2, 2013

Finally, Something Worth Writing About...

Be prepared, this is a long one.

Since the beginning of December I started to get really bored with competitive HoN. Not because the scene is bad.. I think competitive HoN is the strongest it's ever been right now; instead I was bored with competitive HoN from a drama aspect. The predictability of well run tournaments with the same rosters and hero lineups doesn't make for a very dramatic time. This issue was ultimately what lead to my disinterest with continuing to update this blog. However, recently a forum post titled "New domain of pain?" caught my interest. Before I go into discussing it I was to preface by saying I have no personal issues with anyone I will mention in this post and hope that anyone who reads this will be as objective as I am attempting to be while writing it.

I knew that Insania was being removed from Trademark (tdM) and replaced by Fittske for awhile, not because Mynuts came to me and told me about it, but because there were obvious issues within Emperor's Domain of Pain (DoP) and always a little passive aggressiveness between certain tdM players and Insania. Anyone who was close to these two parties knew this was on the horizon, even if no one said anything. Following the announcement of Chessie's departure of Complexity (coL) to join Stay Green and the resulting removal of Skyzoe, it was clear to many forum goers and myself that a new Diamond level team was on the cusp of formation. So when Insania announced that he would be joined by Skyzoe, Kebap, LezzQQ and Pewe` (who was already replaced in favor of former coL 6th man Shamsz) I wasn't caught off guard in the least.

Likewise, once Fittske joined tdM I knew that DoP was running on life support. The announcement came a few days ago after DoP chose to forfeit their Sound Blaster Heroes League match on both Emperor's and Testie's streams, with Testie citing his lack of desire to give up a few hours of customer service as well as issuing the statement that he has already proven to himself and everyone else that he is one of HoN's all-time top players. The dissolution of DoP also came to little surprise, as it was apparently impossible for players to either find time to practice or wake up for matches. This saw Heimer and Jeppins make their way to Tt eSPORTS (TteS) to replace Riser who left to fill the gap Chessie left in Complexity; as well as Wytaliba who cited real life issues as a reason to step back to the role of 6th man. Although if you want my opinion, in addition to RL issues; wyt probably also saw this team has having little chance of success after losing the two best players on their team and wanted to go out as being remembered as part of one of the most dominating HoN teams of the 2011-2012 year. Emperor was kind of the odd man out here, but I expect him to join another team (maybe even coL (to support Riser's addiction to dodging LANs)) as a 6th man.

You might be wondering why I typed that third paragraph at all, but I needed to establish that DoP had disbanded. And even though everyone who is gonna read this post probably already knew everything about what I just said, I like to be thorough in my rants to avoid confusion... and because I talk like I type. You all know how much I like to talk. So now on to the discussion at hand:

The "New Domain of Pain"

So DoP is no more, leaving a vacant spot in Diamond Division. Normally this would mean that one team (tdM) gets a free trip to the Round of 8. Except what ended up happening is Insania's team was able to take DoP's slot in Diamond, even though they didn't have any DoP members actively on their roster. Let me be clear on exactly what happened and when (since I have seen some conflicting reports on the forums):

1. Emperor creates DoP during the initial signups with the following roster: Emperor, Fittske, AngryTestie, Ensoe, Jeppins, zeNap (Managers don't count to player add/removes)
2. Ensoe joins TteS after the Qualifiers, Emperor removes Ensoe and adds CHEESEHELMET and Parakletos (additions 1 and 2)
3. Fittske joins tdM after HT Cycle 3, Emperor removes Fittske
4. DoP disbands, CHEESEHELMET and Jeppins move to TteS roster, Parakletos leaves DoP, zeNap and AngryTestie remain on roster, Emperor adds Insania (DoP team is penalized 20% of its points for 3rd roster change)
5. Emperor gives Captain rights to Insania, Insania removes Emperor
6. Insania adds Skyzoe, Kebap, LezzQQ and Shamsz (DoP team is penalized 20% for each of the 4 additions)
7. Domain of Pain roster now reads Insania, LezzQQ, Skyzoe, Shamsz, Kebap and includes AngryTestie and zeNap who have yet to remove themselves

Now that everyone is clear that this is exactly as it happened (I confirmed this with Emperor by the way) we will continue.

Insania's new team The Fire Rises (TFR) replaces DoP in HoN Tour's Diamond Division. Already, this is kinda fucked up from an ethical standpoint, but I'm in favor of letting a team with so much potential go directly to Diamond instead of just stomping on shit teams in Bronze and Silver. That's not fun for anyone, especially not the teams in Bronze and Silver who belong there and are trying to get better by playing against evenly matches opponents. Then I look at the HoN Tour site and realize they are still sitting at 881 points...and this is where I have to draw the line. In typical Phil fashion, I start writing a post of the forums to express my confusion and lack of support for this decision, the post can be found here but I will copy and paste it as well to establish events:


I don't have a problem with them moving straight to Diamond division. I do, however, have a huge problem with them getting to keep the points that DoP had already earned. If this stands, the current DoP will come in ranked at #15, which is a mere 4 positions away from #11; meaning they will have the opportunity to compete in the tournament to be the 4th team to Vegas. I don't think anyone would put it past a team like this to be able to reach 5th or 6th in the upcoming cycles, especially if they continue to practice like they have been.

4 None QsQ 357 Diamond 6,750 pts

5 None Tt eSPORTS TteS Diamond 4,900 pts

6 None Lions eSportsKlubb LION Diamond 4,650 pts

7 None One Trick Pony OTP Diamond 2,925 pts

8 5 We Are Spies oo7 Diamond 2,790 pts

9 None Absolute Legends aL Diamond 2,425 pts

10 None Team Mistral MlST Diamond 2,420 pts

11 None CutForBieber YoIo Diamond 2,400 pts

12 3 Pencils PNIS Diamond 2,375 pts

13 -5 Fack You Kurdi FYKU Gold 2,350 pts

14 -2 Call It Karma C1K Gold 2,200 pts

So I think it's fair to say that right now there's a real solid Top 4 with Stay Green, Trademark, Q Squad, and Complexity. Then you have Lions and possibly TteS (depending on the level of success they have with their new roster) at 5/6th. I can ABSOLUTELY see this team able defeat any other team in HoN Tour, and I could see them taking a few games off the top teams as well. Giving a team an 800 point headstart is unfair to all the current HoN Tour teams who have fought to earn their way to their current ranking; and even though I genuinely like and have a good relationship with every member of this team, it's a situation that needs to be addressed.

This is met with some who agree and some who disagree, as well as some who care less about the topic but would like a chance to insult The Thrill (as is to be expected since people often times can't keep their personal distaste for me out of logical arguments.) And later in the day is discussed on the Honcast Podcast when Breaky brings up the topic of TFR replacing DoP in Diamond. Milkfat (the current Commissioner of eSports for S2 and HoN Tour Director) is given an opportunity to speak about why this happened. At this point he states the following (paraphrased for brevity:)

"I think when we initially made the rules...when a team split, if 3 of that teams players wanted to stay together they could add 2 players and keep their points...I don't think it was an oversight but the players were able to find a loophole, congratulations to them...this is our first time doing a major event like HoN this unfair? Maybe? I don't the end what it comes down to is, sweet, someone pointed out a flaw and now I have something to fix."

Shortly after, Breaky brings up the arguement about having Diamond start at zero points, calling 800 points "minimum" and "not a lot in the broad spectrum" and that they will have to "do VERY well to get themselves into the top 11."

Beefpotpie thought it was "sweet and really cool of Emperor to donate his team to Insania." 

Then Zetpro drops this bomb on me: [8:50:04 PM] William "piratkuk/SweetPro" Näslund: i like boobies
[8:50:11 PM] William "piratkuk/SweetPro" Näslund: just wanted you gais to know

I will address these comments from the last to the first:

Zetpro: Yes.

Beefpotpie: This should do.

Breaky: 881 points is "minimal?" Actually zero points is minimal, that's the definition of minimal. 881 points places them in 38th place in HoN Tour according to Milkfat (even though they are listed at 15 on and they are competing in the division where they receive the highest amount of points. The one caveat to them having basically an assured spot in the Top 11 is that winning Gold Division is worth 1,000 points, meaning that a team who is worse than them can possible get more points due to winning a lower division match (this needs to be addressed for HoN Tour Season 2.) Assuming that they placed 5-6 (which is completely conceivable) in every cycle from now till the end they would have 4,881 points. That's not taking into consideration that this team could very well have a Top 3/4 finish. So next, I'll use Mistral as an example because I don't think they'll drop down to Gold nor place higher than 9-12 in Diamond. If Mistral places 9-12 in the next 4 cycles they will go from 2,420 to 4,420: this places them below TFR in the rankings and could lead to them being completely knocked out of the Top 11. This stands true for We Are Spies, Absolute Legends and Afraid as well. Given One Trick Pony's somewhat consistent results I think they are already a lock, but even they could be at risk. I just want you all to realize that 881 points is not "minimal," it is a gigantic head start for a powerhouse potential team who is forming half way through a season. If FnaticRaidCall decided to come back to HoN, would you give them an 800 point head start? Food for though.

Milkfat: No. No, no, no, no, no. This should have never been an issue. When you took over the rules were already written for HoN Tour, and granted the rules needed to be updated, there was a clause in the rules that SPECIFICALLY STATED that a team needed to maintain a CORE ROSTER to inherit the points. The core roster was defined as 4 of the original players, and even if you wanted to take that down to 3 players, that would have been fine. But you just straight up OMITTED it. There's on congratulations to be had for Insania, you should feel embarrassed about this situation because it should have been avoided from the very beginning. You know, I believe that as a "Director" you probably will do a better job than I did. I think you have great ability when it comes to planning and coordinating events with partners. But when it comes to running and hosting a league, I gotta be honest when I say I don't see the merit. I wrote over twelve pages of rules for HoN Tour, and the thing is, none of it was fluff. I know how players are. I know how they play pocket lawyer. I know they look for any way to get an edge in on the competition by exploiting administration and other errors. This wasn't an oversight, this was ignorance.

One thing that disappointed me is what has been said officially from S2/Honcast however, is that it's all just a giant cop-out. The truth of the matter is, you control what happens and what doesn't happen. Do you think that in real sports if a player is found to have abused an illegal substance after the fact that they just say, "HAH, YOU GOT US! CONGRATS BUT IT WONT HAPPEN AGAIN!!!!" Or do you think the Olympics would allow a player to argue semantics like "you just said steroids were banned, you never said anything about HGH!????" No. They strip your titles, your medals, your awards. Just recently Lance Armstrong was stripped of his gold medal after admitting to using steroids, and thats basically what happened here. A new team, The Fire Rises, used steroids and got 881 points to start off with.

The thing that disappointed me the most however, is how these guys all claim to be lovers of eSports, yet do nothing to protect it. eSports doesn't exist to serve you guy, you guys exist to promote eSports. Oversights like this can't happen. You're letting a team walk over you because of your personal relationships with the players, saying otherwise is a lie. You wanna be an admin? You wanna be in charge? You gotta be able to make tough decisions. When I took over as Director of eSports back in January 2012 and my shit was getting pushed in on the forums I just stomached it. When I found out Pika used Nir as a "dirty ringer" I penalized Buch and his team, and that was hard because he's one of the closest friends I have in HoN. You wan't people to take eSports seriously? You want it to last long enough for you to have a job in it 5 years from now? You gotta treat it seriously and with respect. There was nothing "right" about what happened here, nothing was "ok" or "acceptable." What happened is morally wrong, and more importantly it undermines the legitimacy of HoN Tour as a respectable eSport event.

I won't comment on what I'm reading on the forums now about the FIT situation, as I don't have that much information, but I sincerely hope that what I do understand of it isn't true. Otherwise, be ashamed.


  1. hon doesn't deserve its competitive scene, what a cesspool

  2. I can't believe S2 would let Milkfat (or whoever made the decision) favor other players just because they might get 'high' in hontour rankings. It's a goddamn shame but i hope S2 does the right thing and takes TFR points away from them like they should have in the first place.

  3. S2 Unprofessional & Favortism?? Shocker.

  4. from a viewer standpoint, it makes for more interesting games watching the best players play, rather than some lesser players who happen to accumulate more points since they have been at it longer. Lets face it, HON Comp scene is coming back from life support, you gotta break some 'rules' in order to get the good team up there and encourage good players a nice team spot. From here they can move up or down depending on their performance, but these are established players with Dreamhack win (Insania) so give them a chance

    1. Afaik points are completely seperated from the Division you are in meaning that TFR could play in Diamond normally but still have no points

  5. Thanks for writing a post, been looking forward to your opinions

  6. Gotta have to agree with you on this, them stomping through the leagues would be a waste, but them getting free points like that, is bullshit. How these HoN Tour people can let this slide, and think everything gun' b' gut, is beyond me. They ought to know better.

  7. Old news, it's the same thing as how back in Project Epoch people would fake mentoring and get free gold coins from their friends.

    1. The corruption and undermining of HoN Tour as a legitimate eSport event is a little higher priority that a few shitty 1700 players getting gold coins.

  8. Who better testie moon ?

  9. It may be unfair for TFR to take over a team and retain some of the points, but at the same time it's also unfair for players, such as Insania to be shafted from a team they helped build and win points with all for nothing.

  10. If you were to average out the points earned by the teams TFR's players were previously on, it would be a hell of a lot higher than 881. They are a top 11 team and 881 points really isn't as huge of a head start as you are making it out to be. That's literally one 8th place finish in diamond, it's not like they started in a tie with tdM. Although I will admit I thought beef "commending" emperor for giving up DoP was incredibly stupid and shows what great insight beef brings to the table.

    1. I will agree for Skyzoe and Insania they should be compensated in some way. LezzQQ and Shamsz should get nothing from coL, Shamsz I dont think played a single game in HoN Tour and LezzQQ just filled in for 1 cycle. Kebap didn't have a team prior to.

      If anything, this shows that more attention needs to be put into protecting the players. I'm scared to see what might happen come cycles 7 or 8 once teams realize they can't make it into that top 11 section for the trip to Vegas. How many roster additions do you think we'll see in the last few weeks?

  11. Would you care to stop fucking posting on your disgusting blog about competitive scene and S2's company as a whole? You got fucking fired, get over it. You are in no part of the company since you don't fucking work for any of them anymore, nor are you associated with any of the competitive scene since you are a trash 1500 player that can only manage to not feed with Lego, get over your fucking butt-hurt self. You got fired cuz you are fat and not qualifed for the job, deal with it.

    1. Seems like you're the one who's butt-hurt.

    2. LLOOL ^^ it tru man, u cant say thing bout some thing your not involvd in. U just mad, cuz u fired. Being mad iz not gnna help. Considr ur life.

    3. I can't tell if you're actually retarded or just pretending.

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