So, I know I am gonna take a LOT of shit for this post but it's been on my mind for awhile, and since I've mostly just been reporting on drama and news stories lately I wanted to take a break and write about something that I have had on my mind for awhile.
Most of you who read this know that before I worked for S2 as the Director of eSports I was one of the four influential members of Honcast (Breaky, xanderK, and HunteR being the other 3) and one of the first two (simultaneously with Breaky) to be hired by S2. During my time with Honcast I functioned as the primary co-caster and had a lot of fun doing events like DreamHack and NASL and other online tournaments, and even though a lot of people didn't like me for being an asshole, not having enough insight, etc... I was successful at what I did. Of course, when I started with Honcast I was just a lowly, EM player who pretty much regurgitated what I had heard from other casters. But as I continued casting I made friends with pro players (like Zetpro who was known as Piratkuk then) and they let me scrim and even play some matches with them as I began to get better at HoN, and was able to pick up some first hand knowledge as well as having people like HenryD, Grace, and a few others who would give me great tips during and after my casts.
Additionally, this was during the time when there were multiple casting groups: GameReplays, Gamestah, GosuGamers, CybernetixTV, and NevaTV were all rival organizations who we constantly had to battle it out with for viewers. I don't think it's being too arrogant to say that, while Breaky was the main driving factor for Honcast, I played a large part in Honcast becoming the dominant casting organization. True, HunteR did have good contacts within S2 Games that helped Honcast on its way, but Honcast would have never become what it is today without Breaky, myself and xanderK committing thousands of hours of unpaid time to the project. People often talk about the "Honcast Monopoly" but the truth is, we were just better than everyone else. We had more content, better casters, bigger tournaments, and a better website than any of the other guys and we did it with less people. Over time, people lost the drive to compete with Honcast because we had basically cornered the market. This led to a lot of false accusations from people at HoNReplays.org and a few others who claimed that S2 Games showed favoritism to Honcast over other casting organizations, but if you think about it, what did you expect? For S2 to promote streams that were bad just to give everyone their fair shake? I don't know what people were thinking back then, all I knew is that I was on top back then and I wasn't afraid to admit it, and I'm still not. But this post isn't about a trip back to the glory days when I was still a relevant fixture in the HoN community. This is a post about Beefpotpie and coLcast (by extension) and why I don't think it's up to par.
A lot of people really love Beefpotpie, and what's not to love? He's got a jovial personality and look about him, he's extremely friendly to everyone, he's legitimately passionate about HoN and he's got a pretty good sounding voice that suits casting (he sounds exactly like Ayesee who, along with Draskyll, are my favorite DOTA 2 casters). So what's my problem? Well, to be honest I don't think he has enough talent. He's just not good enough.
I was talking with someone else about this the other day (from the pro HoN scene) and they said:
"He's very eager and driven, but I just don't think he has it in him to be what he wants to be."
And I couldn't put it any better than that. It's not that I question his dedication, passion, loyalty or desire in any way. I think he's sincerely wants to be an amazing caster, but if the talent isn't there.. well it's just not there. I'm not gonna harp on his lack of competitive insight, or somewhat shoddy camera control. As a main/head caster those are things that I find the lack of as being acceptable. What I don't find as being acceptable is the inability to control the cast. Ever listen to Beefpotpie do a solo cast? Someone on my blog put it perfectly once in a comment when he said it's like listening to a Monty Python skit. I don't have a problem with taking breaks from talking, sometimes there's nothing interesting to talk about. But don't just babble on and jump from one topic to another like a crackhead with ADHD. When he does have a co-caster the cast seems to flow a little more smoothly, but then you still have to deal with his play-by-play, which is incredibly hit or miss (often times more miss than hit). He tells the most awkward jokes and laughs at things that I just don't find any humor in. And finally, he has no edge at all. There's not a single bad bone in this guys body, and often times the co-caster becomes the "star" of the show because Beef has such little range of emotions. It's either nice and cheery or nice and cheery.
The worst part about all of this is that Beef is going to be the main caster of the 8 team HoN Tour Finals Qualifier, and it's pretty much the tournament I'd been looking forward to since the beginning of HoN Tour. Now I'll be forced to either endure cringe inducing casting or just watch the replays. Hopefully he takes this and the criticism that recently popped up on the forums as a sign that he hasn't made it quite yet and really needs to work on his craft.
would you rather have sheever than beef? I mean, he might not be top tier, but he is definitely better than 70% of all casters out there in all games
ReplyDeletemakes no sense, for what you argue as "awkward jokes or laughs at things with no homour" i say are funny and actually entertaining honestly in my opinion beef is an amazing caster who does great work and i think it will be a sad day in the hon community when he stops casting
ReplyDeleteAenima- His casting is brutal. When you as a spectator are sitting there thinking "oooook, awkward, let's go back to the game..." You don't tune in to Monday Night Football and hear John Gruden ramble on about insignificant shit, you hear thorough and excellent football analysis.
ReplyDeleteWhat i find most annoying with Beef is that fake voice he uses while casting. I simply cannot watch anything that guy cast since he's ruining it with voicecracks and bullshit.
ReplyDeleteWell obviously Breaky is better than Beef but even if Breaky does a solo cast he would be way worse than the normal caster and a co-caster cast!
ReplyDeleteBeef together with Emperor is just way better than Breaky+Emp IMO. Breaky is great at yelling during teamfights and is probably the best solo-caster, but he's quite terrible at controlling the camera and it's just awkward when he tries to give insightful comments on stuff, i.e. "The tower is gonna go down, I'm 100% sure" - tower doesn't go down.
ReplyDeleteThe chemistry between Beef and Emperor provides a more entertaining cast and that, in my opinion, makes up for Beefs lack of talent any day.
I would think you would have had a bit of sympathy for the guy considering that you have so much in common...You know since this quote applies to pretty much both of you in each of your desired professions: "He's very eager and driven, but I just don't think he has it in him to be what he wants to be."
ReplyDeleteTo the guy commenting on breaky's camerawork; I guess that is somewhat true, but seriously, try doing it yourself and you will find out that HoN's spectator system is lacking a ton of features and I really think it should be looked at. I don't want to conpare games like this but if you, for example, look at the ongoing MLG starcraft games you can see how smooth the camera is and you just cannot do the same in HoN. Either way, good and interesting post as always Phil.
ReplyDeleteHoN spectating system is pretty good if someone knows how it works, it tells you whenever a guy drops in hp and gives you a hotkey to move the camera to him....
DeleteI completely agree Phil. I honestly think he was a better caster right when ColCast started and he was unknown and proving himself. I feel like he's too comfortable now and that's part of why he makes those weird jokes and just says generally odd things.
ReplyDeleteI've actually hesitated to respond to any of these threads but this hit it so directly on the head that I felt it necessitated a response.
DeleteIn the last few weeks maybe a month or two I feel that I have become a bit too comfortable and I've been branching out, "catering" toward a minority of viewers that do enjoy the offbeat humor I sometimes provide. After looking back at my casts from this Saturday I can completely understand the point that a fair amount of you are making about my casts sometimes being awkward, and I agree with you that its not ideal. I'm making a conscious effort to try to whittle down the number of jokes that don't always hit home and focus up more on the important aspect of the cast: covering the game.
I hope that there is a stark contrast between Saturday and Sunday's casts as I did actually do a fair amount of thinking on the manner and I overall feel that today's casts were of a much higher caliber.
As always thanks for watching and providing constructive criticism to help me become a better caster.
-Beef
Glad you're taking it this way Beefy, I also want to remind you that you're one of the first few to hit 2k+ viewers constantly while casting. I still remember the cringe worthy GR casters (that Danish guy with a lisp, holy fuck it was horrible) and today's scene, even if it's just you and Breaky, is miles ahead of what we had.
DeleteBut yeah, you still have room for improvement, who doesn't.
Dont worry about it beef, you just need more practice. Breaky's been on the spotlight for a while, it made him better and sharper. It will do the same thing for you.
ReplyDelete@Beef: Just dropping a +1 comment on your ability to accept the constructive parts of the "cast review". Always nice to see people strive towards improvement.
ReplyDeletePhil don't you have anything better to do as a grown man then to criticize video game casters that actually try to do a good job... I swear every time I read from this blog its just you being salty from being fired by S2...Grow up and move on already.
ReplyDeleteHonestly beefs casting is pretty bad.. The thing I hate most about it is his really crappy play by play like he will use the same words over and over " hes going back in " "turning it around" or he will mix up heroes that are actually even really "turning it around"I just think compared to even some of the casts done by competitive players such as and im sad to say this but zetpro, who i cant stand; zetpro, and also melonzz cast beef just sucks.. He honestly has such bad chemistry with co cast's such as Emperor, he brought up something about "hey emp I remember when you played doctor repulsor one time" like who the fuck cares when emperor played doctor repulsor in a tmm. Even when beef trys to make jokes with emperor you can get a sense that Emp is thinking what the fuck.. Its even worse when beef just continues the conversation of the completely irrelevant and unfunny conversation. Please for the love of god stop. I generally just dont like listening to the cast and Im sorry because Beef seems like a good person always cheery and happy but the casting gig just isnt really cutting it for me.
ReplyDeleteLots of errors didnt proof read^ but you get the message.
DeleteWho is Phil to come with criticism? He's one of the worst casters i've ever heard, and he got fucking fired. Grow up you fucking terrorist look-alike asshole.
ReplyDeleteofftopic: they really need to implement the thingy where you can turn on/off fog for legio/hellbourne team, i cringe everytime breaky goes "Did that ward see him?" or "Does that ward reach over there?"
ReplyDeletePhil you were one of the worst casters in hon history. Nobody liked you. Why do you think you can pass judgement? Breaky also does a lot of the same shit as Beef, they both overuse certain phrases and words to an aggravating point, and they both have some shoddy camera skills. But you, my dickish friend, were simply awful.
ReplyDeletethis, this 1000 times this
DeleteHe's just jealous that beef is getting all the love while nobody gives 2 shits about him
DeleteWhere is my upvote button?!?
DeleteWho better testie moon
ReplyDeletePhil you were released from your duties at S2 because you lacked the skills to do your job. You were relevant but now you're anything but. Maybe if you weren't a biased admin and showed any sort of professionalism, you would still be working at S2 instead of balding and working behind the counter at McDonalds. It seems to me that you write these little articles to take your mind off what is a lack of purpose you have in life.
ReplyDeleteI fuckin lold
DeleteNot sure if jealous, or just stupid?
ReplyDeleteYour casting was way worse Phil, and we had to deal with that shit at Dreamhack and other tournaments as well.
Beef is fairly new to casting if I'm right, and I think for what I have seen he does a pretty decent job. Just be happy he brings some extra content to the HoN scene, and we will see if he improves with the experience he will get in the upcoming tournaments.
PHIL YOU ARE FUCKING HORRIBLE HAHA JUST STFU. You are so attached to a scene that does not care about you whatsoever, its borderline creepy and and obsessive. Get a life man.
ReplyDeleteBeef reminds me of Tobiwan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naexpZdAICE
ReplyDeleteI like the casual attitude. To be honest most of the time 5v5 action is just pure mosh-pit and with the low level plays in HoN, people often win, because of the other team mistakes rather than exceptionally plays. I prefere to hear analyzing commentary, not "action" commentary. Action commentary just states the obvious, but is good to set the motion of the game, but it's the "expert" commentary that really drives a good cast.
Keep being lovable.
And phil how is your mom? I hear she is glad you moved back in to the basement.