Sunday, October 14, 2012

The Returners vs Q sQuad: Why the HoN community needs to wake up

I was planning on writing an article based on this subject one way or another but after it got hairy in the servers, I knew there was going to be some drama on the forums. But, before we address that, lets start at the top of the situation at hand.

There were seven possibilities in total regarding the outcome of the matches today.

1. Returners win and Q sQuad loses; Returners advance via record
2. Returners lose and Q sQuad loses; Q sQuad advances via record
3. Both teams lose, Q sQuad loses 2-1, Returners lose 2-0; Q sQuad advances via points
4. Both teams lose, Returners lose 2-1, Q sQuad loses 2-0: Returners advance via points
5. Both teams win, Returners win 2-0, Q sQuad wins 2-1; Returners advance via points
6. Both teams win, Returners win 2-1, Q sQuad wins 2-0; Q sQuad advances via points
7. Both teams win 2-0, Q sQuad advances over Returners due to Head-to-Head matchup

First I need to address the issue I have with record, points, h2h. Let me say that in a two way tie, points should be IRRELEVANT. The only time points should be the deciding factor is in a three way tie and even then where the teams have defeated each other. The reason why record comes first is because you ultimately want to put the importance on winning the series. However, in the case of QsQ vs RET, there is zero reason to go to points because in a two way tie, the two teams have played one another. QsQ should have moved on as long as they beat Team Kierk no matter if they beat them in two games or three. The strength of the win is not important in a tie break scenario. I hope that Milkfat and the other admins who are administrating future tournaments will take this into consideration, as Head to Head always takes precedence. This is consistent with Tennis, NFL, NHL and basically any other professional sport rulings out there.

So on to today's games. Basically everyone knew that both teams were going to win going into it. I would say that probably 90% of people expected a 2-0 win for QsQ over Team Kierk, but with FyKu recently putting on some strong performances, and the lack of AngryTestie on the field, everyone was wondering about the fate of The Returners. First up was supposed to be QsQ vs Team Kierk, but Team Kierk decided that reading the schedule and being on time was not important during a tournament that is going to send one team on an expenses paid trip to Sweden. At this point the admins informed QsQ that they were eligible to take a forfeit win which would have outright guaranteed them a trip to the finals to play against Bunker Down in a Best of 5 matchup later this week. sQy aka NoVa being the ultimate honorable competitor that he is chose instead to give Team Kierk the opportunity to get a squad together to prove that they were the team that truly deserved to move on to the next stage. Meanwhile, the stage was set for The Returners to play their match against FyKu which was going to bring all eyes to Honcast, especially because Kookiez was finally gonna get some play time since AngryTestie was missing (no idea why he was gone but I heard it was something about driving his girlfriend somewhere.)

The match started and during the two played rounds the Returners played aggressively and dominated FyKu. Kookiez showed once again that Monkey King's hero design is extremely flawed as, even after the nerfs that the S2 balance team thought would "severely impact the power of the hero," he was pooping on everyone within a 1000 unit radius. The games ended relatively quickly with Returners taking the 2-0 victory and their fate 100% in the hands of Q sQuad and their ability to beat Team Kierk 2-0. Again, this shouldn't have mattered, but for today's matchup it did.

Team Kierk finally shows up and Q sQuad is ready to go with their normal roster. After one game Q sQuad had achieved a dominating victory. Game two, there were some technical issues throughout portions of the game, but despite them QsQ was able to establish a dominant gold lead and respected experience lead against a team lineup that was not going to be effective at stopping the push. At this point, 3 members of the QsQ roster had been disconnected for 20-30 minutes and the admins of DreamHoN stepped in to make a ruling. They ruled that QsQ had earned enough of an advantage to award them the win, making them 2-0 and allowed them to advance to the finals group over The Returners.

As soon as this happened I had to exit full screen to watch the unlimited tears rain down from the eyes of Returner supporters and AngryTestie fans. This is the kind of drama that the HoN scene had been missing since the Honcast vs Complexity (DWi version) drama during the NASL. I knew the forums and reddit were going to blow up with drama but I wanted to let it ferment a little bit before I checked it out (I don't like hitting F5) so I worked out for 45 minutes, took a shower and got some dinner before coming back to check it all out. Sure enough, the admins are getting all the blame from Returners supporters, HoN conspiracy theorists, and general trolls who don't care about the politics but are looking for a reason to call people retards. My favorite part of these threads is the people who have "seen way bigger comebacks" but have no idea what they're talking about. This isn't a pub matchmaking game, this is a Top 5 team with established members of the competitive community going up against a group of fun seeking players who thought they would give it a shot. They could have renamed this match Yankees vs Sandlot.

Anyway, my second favorite part is where people who have ZERO admin experience start giving their insight as to what "should have happened;" and the guys playing pocket lawyer busting out the rules and breaking it down line by line stating what is clear and what is unclear. Let me tell you something, being an admin is a fucking thankless job. Basically its like signing up to get shit on because you're the one who has to make the hard choices. Do you think it was fun for Breaky and I to have to deal with all the complaining from DWi, their fans, our haters and the ignorant masses when we decided not to allow a remake? It wasn't. Also, the admins of this tournament are some of the most qualified people in HoN and even online gaming to be in their position. I know because I hand selected them from hundreds of interested people. I wanted people who were smart, people I could trust, and people who didn't have direct ties to competitive players, and people who weren't afraid to be disliked.

I even read one guy who called it "one of the worst decisions in pro gaming i have ever seen." LOL. That's really laughable. It's people like this who over dramatize these kinds of situations. How long have you been around pro gaming dude? I'm going to guess either not long, or you were involved in the console gaming scene. Hell, even the NASL decision was a worse decision than this one. Give me a break. The one thing that I do agree with from all these morons arguing semantics is that this does set precedence for future issues. But again, that comes back to having great admins who can determine the issues at hand, realistically read the game and its potential outcomes and make the right decisions when they matter.

In the end, I'm happy with the decision that was made. It's exactly what I would have done in that situation. Then again, the situation never would have occurred if Head-to-Head took priority over points in a two way tie.

My question to you, Dear Reader, is would this have caused as much of a stink had the roles been reversed? Just something to think about.


  1. My question to you, Dear Reader, is would this have caused as much of a stink had the roles been reversed? Just something to think about.

    If by reversed you mean, team kierk having 1 up on qsq, dominating them in the second round and the having three d/cs?

    No, the game would of continued as per the rules, QsQ would of made a comeback, and there would of been a third and final game. GG nab

    1. I mean if Returners needed to win 2-0 to move forward and they faced a DC situation like QsQ. Like, if Returners got an automatic win and moved on instead of QsQ would there be as much drama about the subject as there is now?

    2. Yes, because QsQ is a team that have been working very hard since summer dreamhack, what is happening on the forums, regarding rules etc... would happen but this time from QsQ supporters. I like the way your blog reads, however i dont like some of the points you've got.

      You say " Basically its like signing up to get shit on because you're the one who has to make the hard choices."

      Their not hard, stick to the rules and get shit on(easy route) bend the rules and get shiton even harder... hey ur fault for making shitty rules

  2. @phil the trill just come here to say i called you would get fired i called it. You botch everything you do. You got replaced by a arrogant 20 year old that rages at pubs and dresses up in blood seeker suits. That just tells you how competant you are that all your years experience means you were still unfit to complete the most basic of jobs in managing esports for a game that has 2 tournaments a year.

    ps i called it


      I still dont understand Why S2game did that...

    2. You called it brother. You called it.

  3. But what about Zyori ball sniffing?


  4. LOL cuz his balls needed sniffin'

  5. Complete props to QsQ for waiting it out and not taking the forfeit win. I'm not a fanboy, but I liked the idea of the Returners and wanted to see them move on, but QsQ after being such good competitors, and after working very hard to achieve it they completely deserved to move on.

    I agree completely with the admins decision as well, and completely disagree with any kind of hate that they've been getting because of it. Honestly MOBA games are fkn hard to admin properly in D/C times like that, and when it comes to make a decision, you're never going to make 100% of the people happy. Props to them for stepping in and doing it anyway though.

    Also, just remove MK from the game and everyone will be happy

  6. your site reminds me of this book

    can you make it look less like a 14 year old girl's xanga page in 2000

  7. Let's be honest. Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark was one of the scariest books you ever read. I have all 3 :]

  8. regarding your sports ruling analogy: afaik most of the time points are the first means to decide the ranking of the teams/players in group stages and not the w/l record. so if you wanna go there do it all the way or stay away from it.

  9. I completely agree with you Phil.
    People seem to forever want to be ignorant.

    "My question to you, Dear Reader, is would this have caused as much of a stink had the roles been reversed? Just something to think about."
    I don't think that if the roles had been reversed there'd be such a big deal out of it.
    People who are interested in watching Returners do well and Angrytestie-fanboys are simply a majority.

    Saw there was 13 comments to this post and was kinda disappointed 90% of the posts were trolling/unrelated. Oh well.

    Good job and looking forward to next post :)!

  10. "I mean if Returners needed to win 2-0 to move forward and they faced a DC situation like QsQ. Like, if Returners got an automatic win and moved on instead of QsQ would there be as much drama about the subject as there is now?"

    Definetly not, but its the same in all sports. Whenever there is a questionable/semiquestionable decision ruled against your team their fans will get upset. But if that questionable decision is ruled in your teams favor the same fans would just move on with their lives and smile and be happy with the decision.
    The Returners got the most fans, and they got the decision against them, hence all the fuzz.

  11. stop paying qsq fandicks to come suck ur cock on ur own blog

  12. If it was just about the game, i'd say a remake would be fair. QsQ had an obvious lead, however they werent able to play. But I dont think their issues would have stopped.
    However, including the fact that QsQ waited 3 hours, there is no real reason to be upset. Lalond accepted the dicision aswell, so the only ones being upset are Returners fanboys

  13. I'd also say props to brized and lalond to somewhat shut the fanboys up